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23 April 2011 @ 12:37 pm
Dear Fanpop users,  
Uploading everything I make is not okay with me.

I am flattered that you consider my work good enough to save and upload my entire post to another site but PLEASE STOP. I am aware of Fanpop, I have an account there, and will post my content when I want it there.

Even when you give me credit, which is often and I do appreciate that, Fanpop still attaches your name to my work and that's my one rule: don't attach your name to my work. I know it isn't your intention to claim you made my icons but that's how Fanpop works. It makes me seriously grumpy to find that I can't post icons that I made because they're already posted and have somebody else's name on them.

I'm not addressing this to people who take a couple of icons and upload them for their own use; that is the point of icons. Uploading everything I make to another site, whether it's the entire post or everything in that fandom, is not okay with me. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Mish
 
 
Kros_21kros_21 on April 23rd, 2011 06:29 pm (UTC)
omg hun, now that you mentioned this I went to check and there are a lot of my icons there as well. O.O
Like whole sets of icons!!!! that's crazy. I didn't think they did that.
What are you gonna do about it?
Mish: Jared -- SERIOUSLY HOT in NY Minutehsapiens on April 23rd, 2011 06:45 pm (UTC)
I'm not surprised. The problem is a clash of cultures: LJ values producing original content while Fanpop is an archive that offers reward for quantity rather than originality. (Don't get me started on the concept of icon "contests" where it's fine to enter icons somebody else made.)

The people on Fanpop don't view themselves as stealing, they do offer credit most of the time, but what they're doing is stealing in this culture.

What are you gonna do about it?

Other than rant? ;-)

I'm hoping that asking them to stop will be enough but I know it won't work permanently because there will always be someone new who hasn't seen this or someone who disagrees with me & so continues doing what she wants.

I'm going to be more diligent about uploading to Fanpop as soon as I've posted (argh - I hate the Fanpop interface) to forestall somebody else doing it.

Other than that, there's not a lot to be done. It's the internet and posting something means having to accept that I've given up control of it.
Kros_21: Dean sad poutkros_21 on April 23rd, 2011 06:51 pm (UTC)
I see and I agree with you.
I was just wondering..... are you posts here locked? Like, are they visible only by the ones that are members of your community? Because I was thinking about locking all my entries but then I thought that

first, that wat even normal lj users who just want to look around in my com wouldn't be able to do it and I'd force them to join the com

second, one of the stealers could be a member of my community and in that case the locking wouldn't stop them...

so..... I guess I'm gonna have to suck it up. It's not like it bothers me to no end but it does make me feel a bit uncomfortable and creeped on.... :/
Mish: Dean -- Alone & Moody w/ Impalahsapiens on April 23rd, 2011 07:08 pm (UTC)
My posts are not locked. As you note, it wouldn't prevent the theft and it would be a barrier to people using the community as I'd originally intended. I want to stay open to the LJ community. On a purely practical point, I imagine locking my stuff down would just annoy those who feel entitled to archive my work for me and that's never a good thing on the internet.

I have yet to receive a single comment on any post saying, "Hey, great stuff. Am uploading to Fanpop," or whatever which makes me wonder if the people doing it are unaware of LJ culture or if they know it's a violation of unwritten LJ fandom rules. Speculating on it is pointless but I like to know why people act as they do.

It does feel like a violation because we're not used to people taking entire posts. I try to keep in mind what a pain it was for someone to right-click every icon (I use LJ Scrapbook which defies my download managers; if they have a way to scrape pics easily then I'd like to know so I can use it too. Snagging caps for contests is tedious.) and that it's a sign of thinking my work is worth that effort.

Still, I'd rather that they didn't do it.
Kros_21: Sammy brokenkros_21 on April 23rd, 2011 07:14 pm (UTC)
it could an ignorance problem indeed. People who steal stuff knowing that they are stealing and not aiming to be easily caught usually don't even give credit.
I think they see it as a "Hey, we are collecting great art all around to put it together in one piece. And we selected your stuff! Gloat on!" or something like that.
Which would even be okay, they just should make the time to allert the artist in my opinion and ask for permission.

Anyway, that's how things are. At least now I know about my stuff too. thanks.

and Happy Easter btw! ;D
Mish: Castiel -- Dramatic Lightinghsapiens on April 23rd, 2011 07:33 pm (UTC)
I think you take ignorance and add on those who are entitled and you have the majority of what's happening. They really do give credit the great majority of the time. At that site, the hidden credit is what you do and it's not at all stealing to their way of doing things. I get that. Unfortunately for me, I'm a member of this culture and it doesn't sit well with me.

Happy Easter to you, too! We should focus on happy things like last night's SPN episode. Why am I ranting rather than staring at Sam, Dean, and Castiel while iconning???
Kros_21: dorkaleckikros_21 on April 24th, 2011 12:31 pm (UTC)
Happy Easter to you, too! We should focus on happy things like last night's SPN episode. Why am I ranting rather than staring at Sam, Dean, and Castiel while iconning???

hahahah I know, right?
to tell you the truth I have been making icons of this epsiode since even before the episode was aired. XD
Mizramizra on April 23rd, 2011 07:23 pm (UTC)
That is crazy. Some people really have no respect. And I always thought Fanpop was the uglier stepsister of Bing anyway.
Mish: Gale Harold -- Howdy/Thank you...Tip Hathsapiens on April 23rd, 2011 07:43 pm (UTC)
In the Fanpop culture, they DO give credit most of the time. It's kind of like when we use icons, it's our names on the comment/post and the credit is on our userpics page. The problem is that Fanpop aggregates everything uploaded and tagged and then attaches the name of the uploader rather than the maker. I don't see a lot of original content happening to accompany the icons.

I think that's entirely in keeping with the Fanpop atmosphere, which feels like a corporate exploitation of fandom rather than an entity that grew out of fandom. But that's my personal impression; I'm sure those who like Fanpop would disagree.

I'm not fond of the interface or the layout or the way one interacts on the site. I'd be just as happy if the site went the way of the dodo but I'm sure there are those who feel that way about LJ. There will always be a site that annoys me; myspace users used to hotlink my original photography housed on my server and now Fanpop "steals" my icons. There will undoubtedly be a new annoyance in my future. ;-)

Edited at 2011-04-23 07:43 pm (UTC)
Mizramizra on April 23rd, 2011 08:02 pm (UTC)
I've never really worked with Fanpop before, but the whole site feels clunky and convoluted. From a web design standpoint, I absolutely hate it. I feel the navigation should be more streamlined. Less adverts. Eh, that's me talking again.

MySpace was bad about that, and other sites, too, I'm sure. DeviantArt had its moments and plenty of other sites (Angelfire way back when). Social networking or social sharing sites always have loopholes such as this and will probably be the bane of artists of any medium everywhere. XD
Mish: Castiel -- Profile Green & Bluehsapiens on April 23rd, 2011 09:12 pm (UTC)
It's the overwhelming presence of ads and the clunky interface that does nothing to facilitate communication between fans other than to "give props" that lead me to conclude that the site is feeding off of fans rather than being a site that exists to let fans get together and squee about all the happy things of fandom.

I have accepted that putting icons or my original photography or any other image on the web is to release my control of it. I am asking that fellow fans not use my content in lieu of creating their own (when it's supplying mass content to another site) but that's an appeal to people to respect the LJ ethos and fandom etiquette. I realize it it, to some extent, blowing against the wind.

Edited at 2011-04-23 09:12 pm (UTC)
Nervous, Messed-Up Marionette: ass facesuperbadgirl on April 23rd, 2011 08:20 pm (UTC)
People never fail to remind me of their suckitude.

((Hugs))
Mish: SPN -- Sam I Got Nothinghsapiens on April 23rd, 2011 09:32 pm (UTC)
Thank you. *hugs* I'm not directly harmed. Annoyed and grumpy, yes, but I could choose to delete my Fanpop account and let people do as they will and just never go there. If I find myself getting grumpy over it too much that's probably what I will do as this is my hobby. It's fun. They do generally credit there in the Fanpop-accepted way of crediting. The problem isn't so much the people as it's the site itself, its general attitudes towards content, and the way it credits. It may be something I need to let go of; perhaps I'll find my zen.

This isn't the first time this has happened. I've found my icons in people's Photobucket accounts labeled with things like, "Icons to Use" which may have been for personal use or, given the masses of my icons there, were being collected to be offered to other people or uploaded to other sites (role playing? discussion boards?). My work was credited, which seems to be what a lot of makers care most about so I know the people were conscientious, but I'm not getting the comments or the knowledge that I'm succeeding in another venue. I like my feedback. *pout*

In any case, I'm hoping to convince people here from Fanpop to follow LJ etiquette. Given Miss Manners's job security I recognize that I am likely tilting at windmills.